>> i'm brit hume in for chris wallace this is fox news sunday. haiti struggles to recover from a devastating earthquake. we'll ask former presidents george w bush and bill clinton how they will bring help to haiti. lt. general keen leading the task force and doctor shah chief administration for for the u.s. aid. and the latest from steve harrigan in washington democrats work on a final health care reform bill with a vote looming what does the gop did next? we'll ask mitch mcconnell. our sunday panel handicaps that special massachusetts election. will a ran capture a safe democratic seat tuesday?

all that right now on fox news sunday. hello again from fox news in washington. we'll hear from the former presidents and our other guests in a moment. first, the latest from haiti. authorities say at least 50,000 have been killed and there are fears that total could more than double. relief agencies estimate 1/3 of the country some three million people are in need of help. officials stay there is no electricity and the water system has collapsed. for more we turn to folks news correspondent steve harrigan in port-au-prince, good morning steve. >> reporter: good morning brit. each day small steps forward on the ground here. two radio stations now operating. also the international red cross on the ground in mobile units treating people some feeding points open, also orderly distribution of rice. that being said, there are still a lot of people here with nothing. in my own definition of nothing keeps changing everyday. every square inch of open territory occupied by families, many in tent cities.

people without stents -- without tents just had tarps over their head there was a mother and three children trying to crawl under an suv to get out of the sun. as far as the level of pain goes for some it is just hard to understand. we saw a woman yesterday waiting four days and nights by a collapsed house calling out to her son in that house. it took four days for rescues to arrive with no that's the way things work here. that boy do not come out alive this is a difficult place to operate even if you have money. we were driving to a tent city yesterday and it was a rough road our driver thought his tire might cloud. i said we'll buy you a new flat tire. he said that's not the problem, there are no tires. to move an around basic things, food, gasoline, tires, even if you have money here, simply cannot be found, yet. brit brit where are you staying?

>> reporter: we are in a local hotel here burning all four of us taking turns with the shower so we have food, water, sporadic electricity here but no mosquito nets one thing i will make sure is always in my bag. >> steve, thanks. with us now are lt. general ken keen who heads the haiti task force and dr. shah and the president's point man for the crisis. good morning, general keen let me begin with you. to what extent are those supplies that were accumulating there at the airport where you are getting out into the country to reach people? >> we had a very good day yesterday brit. paratroopers from the 82nd airborne division only arrived in the last day or two delivered over 70,000 bottles

of water and 130,000 rations. we are going to be able to increase that everyday that is only what we are doing. the united nations forces are doing likewise as well as the international community clearly this is a disaster of epic proportions. we've got a lot of work ahead. >> how are you getting the material out into the countryside? are you dropping it out of helicopters? driving it in trucks? how is it working? >> well, our nation can be proud our navy immediately turned aircraft carrier south, right after the earthquake and she arrived as we had troops we are using the helicopters off the uss vinson as we move other equipment in we'll be able to get more ground transportation to increase our tentacles into the countryside. right now we are lying on helicopters.

>> how is the -- who is in control? who is in charge? who is coordinating all this? is it just -- is it chaotic or is there an orderly line of command down there now? >> well, the control of it, we are here in support of the government of haiti. we have established in conjunction with the united nations and international community humanitarian coordination center we are all represented in there 24 hours, seven days a week we are doing that in the united nations facilities, i want to congratulate the nation of brazil in particular the commander of the multi-national forces, brazilian major general i've known him for 30 years we've worked together before, we are coordinating to do everything we can to get supplies out to the haitian people. >> do you have a sense, serve what this death count is

likely to end up being? we hear 50,000. we hear people are having to be buried in mass griffs what is your estimate of that, if you have one? >> well, i think it is too early to telephone but it is clear, it is -- too early to tell, but it is clear, it is significant. the u.n. forces are doing everything they can to support the government of haiti to take care of that and make sure. there are issues obviously that we have to deal with as we go forward. >> dr. shaw you were there yesterday with secretary clinton. to what extent is the haitian government functioning at all? >> we had a chance to meet with president preval yesterday during our trip to hey . he asked us to do -- to be coordinated with him and to work with him and in response to his request to help provide services to the people of haiti and to help rebuild haiti in a specific way. but it is worth stepping back

and noting this happened tuesday, just before sundown. almost immediately, the president pulled us together, and ordered a swift and aggressive comprehensive and coordinated response and that's what we are trying to deliver. i had a chance to spend time with general keen yesterday. we have civilian and military partners working in cooperation with the u.n. and government of haiti to execute the president's orders. we are bringing all resources from across the federal government, helicopters from the carl vinson or whether it is humanitarian supplies from u.s. agency of international development or others to make sure we address this problem as comprehensively as we can. >> it appears from looking from a distance there has been an outpouring of support that the relief agencies public and private both are pouring material, supplies, food, water in there. is there any shortage of the stuff you need to distribute

or is the problem mostly getting it distributed? >> where focused on both. >> i understand that but do you have enough supplies there? are you getting enough to distribute? >> we can always use more. we sent down 600,000 humanitarian daily rash shands. 130,000 were delivered by helicopter yesterday. >> those were the meals ready to eat the kind -- >> yeah, those are daily rations, those would feed someone for a full kay. -- full day. but the need there is eight million. so we are sending down more supplies. >> eight million a day? >> for in initial period that's what the distribution system can handle. we are trying to address it in a come hence is sieve way and get as many commodities, food, water, medical supplies, tents and tarps we need as many of those as possible. we are staging a lot at homestead air force base in miami and sending it down.

>> how are your resources divided between the distribution of the needed supplies and the evacuation of americans who were said to live there some say 40 to 50,000, i don't know about that number. how much of you doing on each of those tasks? >> president was clear when he said the immediate priority is saving lives. our first priority was go in with u.s. urban search-and-rescue teams the first to hit the ground teams with 70 people with great capabilities, specialized equipment, lighting they work around the clock to save lives. >> this is digging people out from under broken buildings. >> under broken buildings, multiple layers of concrete sometimes they dig for 14, 16 hours. >> how are they doing? >> i've had a chance to heat with many so of the guys that have been successful. they've saved a couple dozen

lives, most are haitian. and they've coordinated an effort that includes 30 teams and thousands of individuals from around the world engaged in this effort. that was our immediate priority. our next priority which started in parallel, getting commodities down there, making sure we have the food, water, shelter and basic needs met for the people of haiti that's an immediate priority that the whole government is coming together to supply. then of course, working in close partnership with our military partners to make sure there's security and effective distribution. and then trying to bring it all together logistically and do more everyday. >> would you describe the haitian government now as functional? >> well, certainly some ministries are more functional than others. for example, the health minister has asked us to support the development of a hospital system and asked for certain medical supplies and we are able to be responsive by sending our health and

human services disaster medical assistance teams down and placing them in places that are identified by the health ministry. in other places the government has really suffered greatly themselves, because of the actual devastation. that kind of responsiveness to their needs will be more difficult. >> general keen, how serious is the security problem? are you confronting criminals, being looters? i understand jails were affected and criminals were running loose. how serious a security challenge are you facing, sir? gentleman yesterday when our paratrooper went to deliver supplies they didn't encounter any security issues or problem. in fact they had positive encounters. they interpreters with them, interacting with and able to deliver supplies in a very orderly fashion. we did have an incident with one helicopter that couldn't land and had to release supplies. but there are increasing

incidents of violence we are looking at that very closely. we do need obviously, a safe and secure environment to continue and did the best we can with the humanitarian assistance we are working closely with the united nations who has been here obviously for a long time and been doing the security and stability mission. >> general, who has the authority down there to carry out law enforcement, provide security? does the united states forces there -- i'm sure they can defend themselves what about more jen -- more generally who is providing security? >> united nations forces have enough to provide security and stability one the construct of what they are doing here and they are doing that the police have been devastated as well. we've seen increase in presence of the police on the street. but it's limited. we do have to secure ourselves,

as you said but also have to address how we are able to continue our humanitarian assistance mission in a safe and secure environment. so we have to work and we are working along side the united states, united nations and the government of haiti to continue this security challenge that we face. >> general keen, thank you for taking this time. dr. shah thank you for coming in. saturday president obama asked former presidents george w bush and bill clinton help with the haiti relief efforts. they sat down with major garrett. >> president bush, president clinton thank you for joining us. first question, do you intend to go to haiti any time soon? if not, why not? >> i don't intend to go any time soon. i do think there will be an appropriate time for the president and i to go down in our capacity as co-heads of the clinton/bush fund.

but i have no intense of going any time soon. >> bad idea to go now, sir? >> i may go in a few days because of my u.n. job if i do i'm going to try to stay out of the way. that is just do the work to work through with the haitian government and thank people, but i agree with president bush. we don't need more people down there now unless they are literally delivering, providing food, water, shelter, medicine, medical care. it's chaos. you've seen it, you report it every night, everyday. all of us should be helping, but the airport, it is all they can do to manage the planes they have to bring in and out. so i think there are -- if you have a really good reason to go, you should go otherwise everybody should stay. after the emergency passes, we'll go and we'll go more

than once. but we need to let the people get fed. >> picking up on your point, mr. president, how have you person ly reacted to what you have seen? when did you start seeing it and how have you felt internally? >> i've been watching from dallas, texans i feel sick to my stomach. i feel, it is really emotional. a lot of americans are gonna want to help. our job is to make sure the help is not squandered and it is spent properly. >> president clinton, you have a deep historic, personal relationship, how has it affected you personally? >> it has been extremely painful, hillary and i went down this december of 19 5, the first time. i was heavily involved when i was president because my foundation worked there after and because of the work i was doing with the u.n.. i know a lot of people who

perished in the u.n. building. but i also think that -- almost equally moved by what we've seen on television. i'm just grateful that we're in a position to help. because i think every american who has watched this probably every citizen in the world has watched and said gosh i wish i can do something. well you can if you have one dollar five dollars or ten dollars you can send it to our website or any of the others. because now we to help them get through the days. in a few weeks wield be working on rebuilding right now we to survive. >> president bush, your brother jeb knows the region well, your father, do you think this could be a larger bush family effort? did you plan on end listing your brother, father in any of these efforts? >> they are going to want to help. laura went to analyze the programs. we've had an interest

certainly not as deep as bill's he and secretary of state has spent a lot of time down there. we care about it. i care if it, if you see a neighbor in need it is important to help. if people want to help they caught to dial-up, one place is our website, which is clinton/bush haitifund.org. there's going to be an outpouring of money. i just want people to make sure that they are careful about where they send their money and we can assure them there will be transparency and the money will be spent on programs that will be effective on the the ground. >> president clinton i want to talk about organic brick s in haiti, explain to our audience how something that small, can change what is happening now and the face of haiti? >> before this earthquake hit, haiti's per capita income was

about $780 a year. 5% of the people living on less than $2 a day. one of the big problems with was the deforestation hurricanes hurt more trees taken down for fuel they cut up the trees for charcoal to cook dinner. by the same token port-au-prince and the other cities like most cities in poor countries hardly pick up the garbage. they have unsightly landfills that are public health menaces. there's a neighborhood in port-au-prince which brought the crime rate down and employment rate up, repsych lick plastic and metal, taking the -- recycling plastic and metal and taking the paper and mixing it with saw dust, wetting it, drying it and cutting it into these little brickettes and three will burn as much and long to cook dinner for a haitian family as charcoal at about a quarter of

the price. so you employ 10 times as many people in the process. you save money for the families. you reduce the incentives to tear down the trees if you do that and build income-earning trees like manning trees and reconstitute the mahogany for us, and other fast growing trees you can cut down without deforestation the roots stay and they grow up again this will be part of haiti's rebuilding. it is hard to think about now. this government and the people of haiti had an economic development plan that i was help them to emmen. and we are going back to it -- we are going back once the smoke clears. that's why your listeners need to know if they have $5 to send today or six months from now, they can make a difference. >> president bush, many americans in haiti are as missionaries there's a strong faith-based commitment of america to haiti. talk about how that motivates

the two of you and americans generally? >> a lot of people hear the call to will have a neighbor like they would like to beloved. my own church had a group of church members and an eye clinic they came out, sadly one person died, but haiti has been a focus for a lot of faith-based groups because they see incredible suffering, great poverty and great need. the ultimate recovery of haiti is going to be aided buy the nation-base community. not only faith-based community, but helped by the faith-based community. for those of faith the who want to help our advice is send money now. once things stabilize then you can lend your talent and time. >> i just want to echo that haiti has 10,000 nongovernmental organizations active there, per capital largest number in the world except for india. enormous number are american faith-businessed groups.

we have -- faith-based groups. we have gotten them to register, organize so they can coordinate efforts and amplify the impact of their efforts. they are going to be an important part not only dealing with this emergency but the long term reconstruction of haiti. i think the american people should know that they should be proud of that >> president bush, president clinton thank you for joining us on fox news sunday. we look forward to talking to you again for an update should circumstance warrant. from the map room, back to you. thank you major and thanks to the former presidents. for more information about the earthquake recovery and how you can help go to foxnews sunday.com. >> up next the top republican in the senate mitch mcconnell will be here. we'll be right back. according to the epa, the air in your home can be two to five times more polluted than the air outside. smoke, germs, viruses, allergens, pet dander, even smelly and potentially harmful voc

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>> brit: with us to discuss a number of issues is the minority leader of the senate mitch mcconnell. >> glad to be here. >> brit: what are you hearing from massachusetts? >> it is extremely close and the most liberal, bluest state in america there is a very, very close special election of the united states senate. to give you a sense of how it has electrified the country i was flying back from kentucky yesterday a number of people brought up the health care issue one worthy of note. a lady came up and said i'm one of your constituents but my husband is a massachusetts resident says we are on our way so he can vote for brown tuesday. this has he can find the country. people looked at this health care bill and think it's a terrible proposal. it's gonna cut medicare, raise taxes and insurance premiums they want us to stop it. all of a sudden they realize

there's an election where we can have an impact on it. quite a phenomenon. >> brit: let's assume the election is held and brown is the apparently winner, republican brown. what does that mean for the term in office of paul kirk the interim senator, the democrat serving out the balance of senator kennedy's -- late senator kennedy's term? does his term end on the day of the election so that whether the new senator's seated or not, do you not? >> interesting academic question. what we have to do is wait until the election is held and focus on that first step is to see what the people of massachusetts say tuesday. then everybody will be looking at the pros says after that >> brit: is there any doubt in your mind that the winner, if it's brown would be sworn in promptly? in time to vote on the next -- in the next round of votes on

health care? >> the winner whoever it is, should be sworn in promptly, there are ways democrats could interrupt that process. i'm sure all the lawyers will be looking at this the important thing to remember this is a referendum on the national health care bill. which the democrats in secret, are trying to work out, now. they have arrogantly ignored american public opinion to this point. and they are trying to get their members to continue to ignore public opinion one more time. regardless the outcome tuesday we know in the most liberal state in america we you are going to have a close election for the united states senate. people in massachusetts don't want this health care bill to pass. >> brit: in raw political terms, i understand that you and most of your republican colleagues oppose this bill on substantive grounds, you think it would be bad for the country. let's assume that for the purposes of this question. which is in raw political terms is it better for the democrats and worse for the republicans, if the bill

passes or if it fails? >> it is important -- what's important is it would be good for the country if it fails. >> brit: what about the politics of it? >> i think the politics are toxic for the democrats either way the this arrogant attempt to of the governor -- government take over 1/6 of the economy, taking over the student loan business, doubling the national debt, tripling it on 10 you have widespread public repulsion to this program. >> brit: we see that democrats believe that if the health care retofrpls the clinton administration sought to get through had -- reforms the clinton administration sought to get through had passed instead of failed they would have been better off in the midterms when they lost control of the congress. they believe the same holds today. do you agree with that? >> no one seriously believes that >> brit: you must believe if this fails now they are better off. >> either way whether it passes or ails, it will be a

huge issue, not just in 2010 but 2012. everybody is interested in health care this issue isn't going away whether they pass it or don't. the american people are telling us, please don't pass this bill. >> brit: all right. now, the democrats made day deal with organized labor the other day, which would postpone by five years the tax on the so-called cadillac health plans that many labor union members enjoy by virtue of their contracts. leaving nonunion workers with the need to start paying the tax right away looks blatant in some respects. first of all, will that fly in the senate? even the department democrats, in your judgment? >> whole proposal is riddled with special deals cornhusker kickback, louisiana purchase -- >> brit: what about in? >> another special deal it

encourages people to join unions presumably because they would get better treatment from the government on their health care proposal. >> brit: there's other special deals that you referenced in passing. kind of a backlash to the point where senator nelson is saying that special deal in nebraska turned out to be an embarrassment, unpopular even at home. do you see any sign that there would be such a reaction against this deal for labor? >> absolutely. most american workers are not members of unions. in fact i think organized labor in the private sector has 7% or 8% of the workforce. what about all the workers who are not in labor unions? why don't they get a special deal? >> brit: what is your sense what will happen? if martha coakley wins, democrats hold the seat, is this bill stoppable? >> i think it is stoppable because the american people are screaming at us, please don't pass it. >> brit: they've been

screaming for a while. what about whether you can stop it in the senate? >> we are going to do everything we can to defeat this bill. the american people are hollarer -- hollering, please defeat this bill i'm hoping some democrat is going to say i don't buy this arrogant know we ought to ignore our constituents and pass it no matter what they think. it is clear, if it is popular in massachusetts it is unpopular everywhere. the american people don't want us to pass in bill. >> brit: let me turn if i can to the proposal the president made this week in which the banks that receive tarp funds, rescue funds, whether they paid them back with interest or not, some banks that didn't receive tarp funds would pay a new fee which is being labeled a bank tax by some this is clearly a sign to close the gap the government faces is that going to fly in the senate in your judgment?

>> it is interesting the president brought up the bank tax he wants to change the subject from health care. it is clear they are trying to -- not all tarp ients would have to pay the tax only some. >> brit: auto companies exempted? >> yes the auto companies who are unionized would be exempt from it. i think it is important that tarp be ended. we going to insist that tarp funds be paid back with interest many people being taxed, institutions being taxed have done that we need to end tarp. what is going to happen, the government is going to use a revolving fund to continue to spend. the senator from south dakota is going to an offer an amendment this week to end tarp, i'm going to support it. >> brit: in the bank, in your judgment if the leadership presses for it, can that bank tax be stopped? >> i don't know, we are going to take a look at it what we ought to do is end tarp, get the money back with interest and end tarp.

brit writ what is your prediction in massachusetts? >> a very, very close race, regardless of who wins, we have here in effect, referendum on this national health care bill. the american people are telling us, please don't pass it. >> brit: senator mcconnell, good to see you. >> thank you. >> brit: coming up the massachusetts senate race we've been talking about that could schwinn the balance of power in washington. -- could swing the balance of power in

tpwhefr take electrics for granted and we are not paying attention to the polls. >> people want somebody down there who is going to be an independent voter and thinker and bring common sense back to washington, i need their help. >> brit: a brief sample in what has turned out to be a senate race of consider -- considerable consequences that one in massachusetts. bill crystal weekly standard,

nina easton of fortune magazine, syndicated columnist charles krautheimer and juan williams. if you had doubt whether that senate race is close, tight or in an unexpected posture let's look at a couple of polls that are recent that will give you a sense of that there you see, in two out of the three there, you see brown is up a few points. latest rasmussen poll has coakley up by a couple. as everybody is saying it is close. if you don't think the democrats are worried about this case -- about this race get an load of this flier distributed by democrats against scott brown, women raped in massachusetts in 2008, brown wants hospitals to turn them away this the result of a measure that brown backed in that state which would have allowed conscientious

objecters who worked in hospitals not to participate in abortions. certainly, doesn't be seem to add up to backing up the charge that was made there. bill crystal where in your judgment, watching from a distance, does this race stand? >> the poll 50-46 brown right now, recent poll consistent with internal tracking polls from both campaigns, i slight brown edge that poll two months ago they did a poll before the primary they matched up brown and coakley the front-runners in each party coakley was ahead by 30 points. this race has moved 30 points in two months that tells you something about what the country's -- brown has run a campaign, coakley has run a poor campaign. both are an -- well aware this is on the health care bill and they don't like it and that's massachusetts. on this flier that is the face of desperation in the

campaign. in massachusetts, the attorney general running 73% of the vote in 2006. the end of the -- the democratic party seconds out a flier with a despicable lie about brown who voted for a clause for day after the morning after pill for people who came to emergency rooms that clause required the emergency room to find someone else to provide the medication or pay for the woman to go elsewhere to get the medication he voted for final passage of the bill which requires emergency rooms to treat women had is -- this is denying 1700 rape victims treatment. it is ugly, i can't believe it is going to work. will president obama distance himself when he's campaigning for coakley?:ú >> coakley's internal polls show her down one the margin of error, but a -- i what happens where a lower turn out when momentum is breaking in a

certain direction in this case the momentum and energy is all with the republican, that tends to carry the day on election day. so i think, yes they are nervous, very tight. i would say two things, one i agree with bill. i think this is a referendum on the health care bill. 60% of massachusetts voters think the bill is too expensive. 51% think that they -- they an oppose it. the other thing is, massachusetts this liberal massachusetts this dirty little secret about that state, they do not have a history of electing women to national office. we have the widow of senator paul songs go in the congressional dell -- paul tsongas in the congressional delegation, before that 25 years before in elected a woman to congress, 35 years before they had elected a woman democrat. we have coakley saying on a radio show, she said that red sox great curt schilling was a yankee fan which doesn't help her on that score.

i think that is something else that is feeding into this election. >> this is a state that hasn't elected a democratic senator since 1972. the seat in question has been held by a member of the -- >> republican. >> i'm sorry, republican. and the seat in question has been held by a candidate -- held by a kennedy or a kennedy associate or flunky of some sort -- >> we'll say ally. >> 1952 so this is really astonishing. if you look at the internals, a 10th of the electorate only has cast a vote in absentees of those according to the arc poll, brown has a 16 point advantage, 58-342. if you look at -- 58-42. if you look at the swing electorates in new jersey in never, coakley is behind by

over 20 points. >> well, no question that independents have swung towards brown. independents, it is interesting to note are a majority of the voters in massachusetts. remember it is a 3-1 registration edge for democrats in the state, 3-1. coakley's challenge is to rally her base that base has to do with something that nina was touching on, women, especially who seem uninterested in this race assumed it was going to go to the democrat. now women are being charged up by the democrats, by coakley with these efforts such as that flier that had to do with giving -- i think the flier will work in the short term with women who the -- >> brit: ain't no long term here the race is tuesday. >> what i'm saying is there time for brown to come out and refute it successfully? i don't think so. i think it is [ talking over each other ]

>> brit: that damage is in. >> it will damage him. the second thing you got minors play a role here. blacks, hispanics have not shown enthusiasm for coke hreufrpl president obama needs to stir up the people who voted for him. >> brit: based on what you have seen in his performance in his effort as a political leader and speaker, in recent months do you think he can make a big difference? >> oh yeah. just his presence. i think the white house feeling for what i heard from white house officials this week is he wouldn't go unless he thought there was a chance here to make a vast difference. he thinks he can make that vast difference. the whole health care issue and the like he feels has played against him. remember, he remains person fallly popular, especially in massachusetts. >> i have a higher view of the women in massachusetts than juan does. having gone to school there they are not going to fall for

this in is unbelievable low blow there is a gender gap. the idea that women don't know what is going on or people aren't interested in the race -- >> that is true of -- this is not -- this is a special election. >> there's going to be a large turn-out. there are more people involved, more grass roots donations than in a typical senate race. people are more involved than a typical senate race. what was coakley's strategy? to put everyone to sleep this is a boring race we always elect a democrat, let's elect a democrat. now she are upset that the voters of massachusetts decided let's make up our minds. [ talking over each other ] >> a nationalized election and in fact, scott brown is running away from some of this, because he doesn't want to be identified as the tea party candidate. he doesn't want that he wants to say he's getting support across the board such

affiliation with the far right could hurt him with those independents. >> he's running as the guy who will stop health care. i'm the vote. >> and low taxes and the rest. >> especially referendum on health care and the obama agenda. obama is out there because everything hinges on this election, his agenda and his popularity. >> brit: suppose he goes in, stirs people up, enough turn out, coakley gets elected. does that mean this is a big win for him and a sign that health care isn't as unpopular as we thought? >> no, it's an escape. that's all. the negatives here. his risks are huge. it could be a copenhagen three. ends up in copenhagen, loses the chicago olympics, returns and doesn't get anything on climate change. now he ends up in massachusetts friendlier he has got to come back. >> democrats are lose on this even if coakley wins all the momentum is coming from the anti-health care plan. >> brit: to take a break. when we come back we'll

discuss that health care reform bill and the home stretch for. and the new tax for the nation's major banks. nation's major banks. back in a me.

>> brit: we're back with bill, nina, charles and juan.

subject, health care reform. before the house and senate, a bilk worked on. the latest wrinkle is to overcome labor union objections to the proposed tax on so-called cadillac health plans. the latest deal is that labor union members will be exempted from that tax for some five years while nonreunion people with similar plans will have to pay the so-called cadillac tax. the "new york times" in its wisdom refer to this as a reasonable solution to a problem that threatened to derail the plan. what about this? where does the bill stand? what about the deal cut for organized labor, how will that play in this country? juan williams. >> it plays well with the unions, i don't think there's any question about that they've been putting pressure on the white house didn't have much success. they went to capitol hill and had some success. they weren't have much success with the white house what is interesting about this week president obama has put his name on this negotiation. he's been staying up late.

involved, i think it was from 10 to 6 wednesday, up late thursday night involved in these negotiations. it is possible the white house says the house could still vote for the senate bill. everybody is focused on idea these cadillac plans would be held exempt through 2018 for labor unions so they would not have to pay the extra tax. the problem is it drives up the cost. you are trying to reduce the cost of increase in medicare and medicaid spending it wouldn't do it. how are we going to pay for health care? it is a huge problem for defenders of the plan. >> brit: you would not agree this deal is a special benefit for a special interest? >> of course that's what it is. >> brit: how do you think it will play in the country? >> this country? the country is not the audience. the country may have a judgment to make on day-to-day right now, health care plan is not very popular. people may say they want health care reform things like this look unsavory.

people says it looks like a bribe, a special interest reward. people see that kind of compromise they say this is tawdry. >> it is a bribe. that's why it is so unpopular. it is not just a question of it depriving the treasury of revenue, it is a question of equity. you've got two workers, same type of job, same plan, one of whom -- same income, one of whom is a member of the union the guy who isn't is going to have a tax of 40% on his plan the other guy is not. that's simply incredibly unfair. obviously, it is a corrupt bargain. what is really hurting the bill only the opposition on the substance, the half a trillion in cuts in medicaid, medicare and half a trillion in taxes. it's the process. the idea that deals are made corruptly and so openly is astonishing. the louisiana purchase, a cool 300 million for the landrieu vote, what happened in

nebraska, this eternal exempt that nebraska would have on paying for the extra medicaid costs. and now the unions. the reason it is hurting obama, he ran the idea that he would change our politics. he would not be driven by special interests. there would not be the secret deals. he's done it with the unions, with the pharmaceutical companies, with the doctors, with the hospitals, all in a way that everybody can see. that's why he's hurting so much in the polls and on the health care issue itself. >> brit: is the deal-making on this bill, is it fair to say that is any worse than the kind of horse trading done all the time in congress to round up votes? is this just more conspicuous or is this worse? >> i would say two points. one, this is major social legislation, historic, landmark, whatever you want to call. every other point in history

the medicare in the 60s, we had republicans as well as democrats supporting it. there was bipartisan support. you take this bill, which already has no republican support. divided the country. and you start throwing in this deal-making it all it does is further divide the country and hurts his reputation. second point, he came in to change the way that washington does business. you could have on this, for example in the health care bill, you could have said, we are going to do away with tax preferences from employer-based plans which a lot of economists say that's the way to reduce costs because it makes people more connected with their health care s they would have brought in 250 billion dollars through that as opposed to 90 billion dollars they would have been in better fiscal footing if they had didn't that now it is this horse trading thing. i think senator ben nelson, as you pointed out earlier, has seen the dangers of this, because now he says that deal that he cut with the white house over medicaid, he

doesn't want any part of it any more. he has seen the political dangers. this white house is dedicated to ramming this thing through, while dividing the country and i think hurting the president's reputation. >> juan said correctly, the country's not the audience i am i think that's very revealing. that is their point of view. i don't think that works in america. if we had a european system, you get elected, people get a chance five years later maybe to vote yes or no. america is more democratic, more checks and balances. people are responsive to public opinion. i don't believe this is sustainable. they cannot ignore public will for a piece of legislation of this magnitude. they can not pass this bill, i don't think. >> brit: you still think the bill will fail? >> yes. >> you're really wrong. they have 60 votes, right now, holding, right? they will get the 60 votes. if this is -- let me say this

in the senate. it is a matter of leadership. sometimes you have to understand that you push ahead, there's gonna be a lot of flak. there's going to be a lot of dogs barking. but the wagon train moves ahead. >> the american people don't think they are barking dogs. they have a right to say something and they are saying something in massachusetts and in communicating with senators i think the bill will fail. >> brit: let me hear everybody on this question. in raw political terms, is it better for the democrats if this bill goes down or if it passes? bill? >> i think it is better if it goes down now they have time to recoup. >> they feel it is just as dangerous to have it not pass. so i think it -- they are hurt either way. >> i think democrats think that the public perception of how bad it is wrong. thus, if it passes they will see benefits in the future and they will be okay. >> brit: they're better off --

what do you think? >> they are wrong. the bill is as bad as everyone thinks and it is going to hurt them for decades. if it passes it will be a mill stone for years. >> brit: what think juan? >> if it passes it will be extremely popular. americans like social security. one of the big oppositions people feel medicare benefits and advantage may be cut as a result. will be cut. that's their fear. brit about it it will happen won't it? >> not necessarily, taxes may come up, deficits may be lower, all sorts of things may happen we can't predict that americans like entitlements. >> brit: panel, thanks. den forget to check out the latest edition of panel plus where our group continues this discussion on foxnewssunday.com comes up shortly after the show ends and we'll go at it again. again. meantime, we'll be right back.

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the images from haiti are heart-breaking-- homes, hospitals, and schools destroyed; families searching for loved ones; parents trying to feed their children. but we can all do something. we can help the american red cross as it delivers the food, water, and medicine that can save lives. donate $10 by texting "haiti" to 9-0-9-9-9. visit redcross.org or call 1-800-red-cross. thanks for your help. that's it for today, folks. have a great week. you will be relieved that chris wallace will be here for the next sunday. we'll see you then.